Wow, two Rick Warren posts in a row. Well, he is out on a publicity tour this week, so I’m happy to oblige.
The pastors of Covenant Life Church have asked their members to vote in favor of severing ties with Sovereign Grace Ministries due to “a fundamental difference on how leadership and pastoral ministry should be practiced and applied.” The focus of the pastors has finally shifted to ethics and away from polity after 15 months of repeated abuse. The proud authoritarian culture created and sustained by C.J. has forced his friends and home church of 35 year to leave the ministry in all probability.
What follows is the transcript of Joshua Harris’ comments at the recent meeting for church members. I’ve add commentary.
Today we are talking about discernment ministries and the role of the “watchman.” Ezekiel 33 speaks of the watchman, and we know we are to test the spirits in all things:
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
If you haven’t checked out our Resources Page with links to many of the hundreds of discernment research sites available today, here is the link. We believe that the duty of Watchmen and Discernment Ministries to point out error or potential problems without being vicious. Interestingly, not all discernment ministries agree on every point. How then can we as discernment ministries stand for the truth in love, without attacking one another when disagreements come up?
Joining us for the discussion today is long time radio talk show host Jan Markell, founder and president of Olive Tree Ministries, a non-profit organization has been watching the times in the Church since 1982. Her nationally-syndicated radio program “Understanding The Times” is heard around the world.
Jan will also discuss how the growth of Replacement Theology has lead many churches to not discuss end times prophecy.
Rick Warren, author and pastor of Saddleback Church, has in recent days been making the media rounds in promotion of the 10th anniversary of his popular book, The Purpose Driven Life. In an interview with the Huffington Post yesterday, Warren was approached regarding his views on homosexuality. Some are arguing that the megachurch pastor appeared uncertain as to whether homosexual behavior actually is sinful. Read more of this post
Five Essential Questions
Few have thought more strategically about organizational dynamics than the late Peter Drucker. Toward the end of his life, this turned increasingly toward the non-profit organization.
If you’re not familiar with Drucker, he is sometimes referred to as the “godfather of modern management.” In 1942 he wrote The Concept of the Corporation about GM. In 1971 he established the first executive MBA program. He published 31 books that have been translated into more than 20 languages. He died in 2005 at the age of 95, having counseled organizations for more than 75 years.
Simply put, if you can’t learn from Drucker, you can’t learn.
Though he wrote in a very accessible style, his production was immense, which means he is often more noted than read, referenced than understood. Here’s a primer to his thinking through the five most important questions he felt should be asked of any enterprise.
1. What is our mission?
Your mission tells you why you do something, not how. Strategies, tactics, processes, structures and methods change. Mission doesn’t. Of equal importance is how mission tells you what not to do. To be effective, everyone in the organization must know the mission, understand it, and live it.
Questions for church leadership:
*What is our mission?
*Does everyone know what it is?
*Do they live it?
2. Who is our customer?
A customer is whoever must be “reached,” or in corporate terms “satisfied,” if you are going to achieve the results you want. This “customer” is never static. They are always changing, always becoming more diverse. Their needs, wants, aspirations and dreams are constantly evolving.
Answering “Who is our customer” necessarily means answering “Who is not our customer?” The goal is not to casually please everyone, but to create raving fans of our target.
This raises a provocative question: What of our noncustomer? Drucker felt this was critical for any organization, writing: “And yet very few institutions know anything about the noncustomers — very few of them even know that they exist, let alone know who they are. And even fewer know why they are not customers. Yet it is with the noncustomers that changes always start.”
“Who is your customer” is easily one of the most important questions of all. Until you answer this question, you cannot answer those that remain.
Questions for church leadership:
*Who is our customer?
*What does it mean for us to “reach” our customer?
*What do we know of the noncustomer?
3. What does the customer value?
You cannot answer this question. Only your customer can. And when you get the answer, you shouldn’t argue with what they say they value. They are in a unique situation and reality that is their situation and reality. So ask them what they value, don’t assume you know what they value, or attempt to answer it through the lens of what you value.
Questions for church leadership:
*What does our customer value?
*What assumptions are we making, right or wrong, about the relationship between what they value and what is essential to our message and core values?
*Can what they know they value be a bridge to what they don’t know that they need?
4. What are our results?
In the marketplace, the idea of results is often straightforward through such measures as profit or stock value. Such things then drive how to strategically invest resources (you fund that which produces profit, or offers the potential for profit). Further, if results are the goal, they must also be the test.
Questions for church leadership:
*What are our results?
*How can we apply quantitative tests to qualitative issues?
*If we funded, programmed and staffed based solely on agreed-upon results, what would we stop doing?
5. What is our plan?
Planning defines the place we want to be, and how we intend on getting there. Drucker suggests never having more than 3 to 5 goals at any one time. When there is good planning, it leads to specific action steps and shapes budgets.
Questions for church leadership:
*What is our plan?
*What are our top five goals?
*Do we have specific action steps, and line items in the budget, for our plans?
In a recent blog, Seth Godin (knowingly or not) offered a bit of an update on these that are just as penetrating, and perhaps even better worded for churches:
1. Who is your next customer?
2. What is the story he told himself before he met you?
3. How do you encounter him in a way that he trusts the story you tell him about what you have to offer?
4. What change are you trying to make in him, his life, or his story?
Yet regardless of how you phrase them, such questions must come before tactics or strategy. As Andy Stanley wrote in his book Deep and Wide, too many churches have a “More is Better” model, continually adding programs in hopes something will work. Some have a “What’s the Big Church Down the Street Doing?” model. Far too many have a “Flavor of the Week?” model where the pastor goes to a conference, hears about a new fad that’s working somewhere else, and then comes home and bolts it on to everything else the church is already doing.
None of these approaches will work unless they are the best answer to the questions.
Now, one last thing.
I know, this was a good, stiff dose of “business.“
And the church isn’t a business.
And the pastor isn’t a CEO.
And business terminology, such as “customer,” is distasteful to some.
Let’s stop. We all get it.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t learn wherever there is truth, and use our heads and hearts, prayer and biblical knowledge, to sift through it and apply it where it deserves to be applied. If all truth is God’s truth, then that’s true for organizational insights from great minds such as Drucker.
More to the point, while the church isn’t merely an organization, rumor has it that there’s an organizational side that we ignore at great peril. For example, the ministry of Acts 2 created a wonderful mess that had to be cleaned up, organizationally, in Acts 6. That’s why one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit to the church is the gift of leadership (Romans 12).
As for me, I’ve wrestled with these five questions, in one form or another, for many years. And plan on wrestling with them for many more.
They are really good questions.
James Emery White
This is referenced throughout Drucker’s writings. A good Introduction is Management Challenges for the 21st Century. See also his book, The 5 Most Important Questions You Will Ever Ask About Your Organization, as well as the presentation on these five ideas by the Executive Forum, that can be read online.
Seth Godin, “Four Questions Worth Answering,” read online.
Andy Stanley, Deep and Wide.
James Emery White is the founding and senior pastor of Mecklenburg Community Church in Charlotte, NC, and the ranked adjunctive professor of theology and culture at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, which he also served as their fourth president. His newly released book is The Church in an Age of Crisis: 25 New Realities Facing Christianity (Baker Press). To enjoy a free subscription to the Church and Culture blog, log-on to http://www.churchandculture.org, where you can post your comments on this blog, view past blogs in our archive and read the latest church and culture news from around the world. Follow Dr. White on twitter @JamesEmeryWhite.
Apprising Ministries has long been considered a leading critic of Rob Bell, former rock star pastor of the emerging church.
In this new piece I share some interesting news about why Bell actually stepped down from the MHBC pulpit. As you’ll see, it seems that my inside sources at MHBC were on the level.
This video is an artistic take on how the story of the nativity might have read had a social network existed at the time of Jesus’s birth. Follow this historical period as it unfolds as a digital narrative. This vignette is great for highlighting the truths and circumstances of our Savior’s birth in a fresh, unique way.
Apprising Ministries continues covering evangelical curiosities as spiritual darkness is falling across the landscape of Christendom.
You’ll see from an upcoming conference to be put on by Piper’s Desiring God outfit that we have a good reason to wonder about DG and The Alpha Course.
As an online apologetics and discernment ministry (OADM), during this time infected with the false philosophy of postmodernism, our work at Apprising Ministries is not only defending the historic orthodox Christan faith but also bringing to light the slide of the visible church into apostasy.
Apprising Ministries brings you a look at the sinfully ecumenical Southern Baptist megapastor as he begins hawking the 10th anniversary edition of PDL today on CBS This Morning.
Got two hours of time to spare? I hope so, because if you’ve ever wondered what the “big deal” is about the fruit of the Purpose Driven Church created by Peter Drucker and championed by Rick Warren, Bob Buford and Bill Hybels, this free video is well worth your time. At about an hour and 46 minutes in, Stand Up For The Truth gets a mention about research we did last summer — and even if we weren’t in it, I’d strongly encourage you to watch this video!
“Can the Church borrow the marketing tools of the world and apply them to the Church? What is the history of the Church Growth movement and its false premises? Who is involved in the new evangelicalism and second reformation? Why are these movements embracing contemplative mysticism? How does this movement play into the New World Order?” These questions and more are answered in Church of Tares: Purpose Driven, Seeker-Sensitive, Church Growth & New World Order:
Here is how the producers describe their video project:
Church of Tares chronicles the man-centered pragmatism of these evangelical Christian movements in comparison to the Bible’s instruction for building the Church of Jesus Christ. As a sequel to The Real Roots of the Emergent Church, Church of Tares documents the connections between the liberal Emergent Church movement and the Church Growth movement. Both movements’ leadership were discipled by business management guru Peter Drucker, who was attracted to the megachurch movement as a social phenomenon that could bring about his “new society” and New World Order. Megacurch pastors Rick Warren and Bill Hybels as well as Leadership Network founder Bob Buford all acknowledge Drucker (who professed not to be a Christian) as their mentor and have built their organizations upon his secular business management philosophies rather than the foundation of Jesus Christ.
The fruit of these movements is great compromise of the Gospel and the Great Commission. Rick Warren claims to be ushering in a new spiritual awakening and second reformation with his P.E.A.C.E. Plan. But this reform appears to be a social reformation rather than a spiritual one by joining together in ministry with unbelievers to fight global giants. Such compromise has led to the affirming response letter to the Common Word document which declares Muhammad to be a prophet and the Bible and Qur’an to be of the “same Divine origin.”
Written, edited, narrated and directed by Elliott Nesch. Original interviews with:
Paul Smith, leader in the Calvary Chapel movement founded by his brother Chuck Smith, who also wrote the foreword to Paul Smith’s book New Evangelicalism: The New World Order.
Phil Johnson, executive Director of Grace to You, a Christian tape and radio ministry featuring the preaching ministry of John MacArthur.
Chris Rosebrough, Captain of Pirate Christian Radio and Host of the Fighting for the Faith radio program, holds a degree in Religious Studies and Biblical Languages from Concordia University.
Joe Schimmel, Senior Pastor of Blessed Hope Chapel in Simi Valley, California, head of Good Fight Ministries and producer of such films as The Submerging Church and They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll.
Gary Gilley, Senior Pastor of Southern View Chapel in Springfield, Illinois, and author of several books including This Little Church Went to the Market: The Church in the Age of Entertainment.
Bob DeWaay, former Senior Pastor of Twin City Fellowship in Minneapolis, Minnesota, author of Redefining Christianity: Understanding the Purpose Driven Life Movement, The Emergent Church — Undefining Christianity as well as over 90 articles on important theological issues through Critical Issues Commentary.
Ray Yungen, speaker, research analyst and author of A Time of Departing and For Many Shall Come in My Name.
James Sundquist, founder of Rock Salt Publishing and author of Who’s Driving the Purpose Driven Church?
Eric Ludy, bestselling author of dozens of books on Christian thought and living, the President of Ellerslie Mission Society, teaching pastor at the Church at Ellerslie, the lead instructor in the Ellerslie Leadership Training.
Robert LeBus, Bible researcher, apologist and evangelist.
This film is non-profit and FREE, not to be bought or sold, but you do have permission to make copies and distribute freely. To obtain a DVD, simply contact us for a free copy or make a donation with your request: