Pope Francis’ recent comments that people are “fundamentally good” have drawn criticism from some Protestants, including Southern Baptist Theological Seminary President Dr. Albert Mohler, who called the pope’s remarks “Christless” and said that they were totally opposed to the teachings of Scripture.
“When you look at the world, what gives you hope?” CBS Evening News anchor and managing editor Norah O’Donnell asked Pope Francis in a wide-ranging interview that aired Sunday evening.
“Everything,” he replied. “You see tragedies, but you also see so many beautiful things. You see heroic mothers, heroic men, men who have hopes and dreams. Women who look to the future. That gives me a lot of hope.”
“People want to live. People forge ahead, and people are fundamentally good,” Francis continued. “We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good.”
“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis. https://t.co/MmLPBhWVU2 pic.twitter.com/7Be2GrKrdB
— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) May 19, 2024
Albert Mohler Critiques Pope Francis’ Comments
In the first extended interview Pope Francis has given an American broadcast network, he discussed the wars in Gaza and Ukraine, immigration, climate change, surrogacy, the role of women in the Catholic church, and his decision to allow the blessing of same-sex couples.
It was Francis’ remarks on human nature, however, that have drawn much of the attention of Protestant Christians. Dr. Albert Mohler, who has criticized Francis before, gave a blistering response to the interview in his edition of “The Briefing” that was published Tuesday, May 21.
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“Quite frankly, I think for some evangelical Protestants, it was the first real introduction to the absolute theological vacuum that is represented by the current incumbent of the Vatican, the current pope of the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Francis,” Mohler said.
Mohler said the pope was holding an “unbiblical office” and that Francis’ views are not even compatible with those of Roman Catholicism. “Pope Francis represents the absolute worst of theological irresponsibility,” he said.
The seminary president took issue with remarks Pope Francis made in the middle of the interview, when O’Donnell said, “That’s why so many people found hope with you, because you’ve been more open and accepting perhaps than other previous leaders of the church.”
“You have to be open to everything. You have to. Everyone, everyone, everyone. That so-and-so is a sinner. Me too. I am a sinner,” the pope replied.
“Everyone. [Even] someone with a diverse sexual gender, everyone. Everyone in. Everyone,” he emphasized. “Once inside, we’ll figure out how to sort it all out. But everyone. Do not forget that. The gospel is for everyone.”
At the end of the interview, when O’Donnell asked Francis about his legacy, he said that he is not concerned with his personal legacy but with the legacy of the church and of every Christian. “Personally, I get on the bandwagon of the church and its legacy for all,” he said.
“You mean that the church is for everybody,” O’Donnell responded.
“Yes, for everybody. And in particular for the privileged,” said the pope, explaining that the privileged are “we the sinners” because Jesus came for all of us. “The Lord forgives everything, everything. It is we who get tired of asking for forgiveness.”
Mohler seemed to condense these exchanges into one, focusing on the first. “Everyone is in the church?” he said in his reaction. “Now, I’ll just state that that is outside even the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, or it represents an absolute relativization.”
“And it just is claiming that every single human being is right now a part of the Roman Catholic Church,” he added, “and that is just sheer nonsense.”
Mohler then addressed “the most infamous” question of the interview, when O’Donnell asked what gives Francis hope. Notably, some people have disagreed with the reported English translation, “There are some rogues and sinners,” saying the pope’s words were closer to saying, “We are a little bit rogue and sinners.”
In the pope’s reply, said Mohler, “not only did the pope utter absolute banalities and empty words, he directly, repeatedly refuted the direct teachings of Scripture.”
A number of people, including Mohler, who have taken issue with Francis’ response have cited Jeremiah 17:9, which says, “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?”
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Calling the pope’s views “Christless” and saying they demonstrate “the abandonment of the gospel,” Mohler added, “the pope is not alone in this. And the Roman Catholic Church, let’s remember in its official doctrine, contradicts the Protestant understanding of the gospel as revealed in Scripture. That’s just a very honest statement.”
One user on X pushed back on the criticism against the pope, indirectly pointing out that Catholics do not believe in the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity and saying that Francis’ remarks do not negate the idea of original sin.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Holy See’s website explains the doctrine of original sin at length, stating that “Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.”
“It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind,” the catechism says, “that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice.”
“Human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin—an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence,” the catechism states further on. “Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.”
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